Author Topic: Can non-Catholics receive grace without the sacraments? (Read 3041 times)

Lorenzo · « **on:** November 23, 2012, 12:38:59 PM »

Can non-Catholics receive grace without the sacraments?

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #1 on:** November 23, 2012, 12:39:09 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URtUu8Y-QIM#ws

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jorgeanna · « **Reply #2 on:** November 23, 2012, 08:57:09 PM »

pero ang pangutana nako, kung nabunyagan ka og catholic unya nabunyagan ka og laing religion after that, kung ganahan ka mubalik og pagka-catholic, pabunyag ba ka og balik og catolico?

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islander · « **Reply #3 on:** November 23, 2012, 09:45:33 PM »

i cannot believe that only catholics can receive grace. non-catholics may not have the grace of the sacraments as we know them, but by being good and true and virtuous they stand to deserve graces from a creator in whatever form of worship they take him to be.

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islander · « **Reply #4 on:** November 23, 2012, 09:49:15 PM »

pero ang pangutana nako, kung nabunyagan ka og catholic unya nabunyagan ka og laing religion after that, kung ganahan ka mubalik og pagka-catholic, pabunyag ba ka og balik og catolico?

kinahanglan na tag pari ani da. paging, fr chic!

(hehe, mora man nig case of allegiance when one renounces one citizenship for another.)

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jorgeanna · « **Reply #5 on:** November 23, 2012, 09:53:50 PM »

kinahanglan na tag pari ani da. paging, fr chic!

(hehe, mora man nig case of allegiance when one renounces one citizenship for another.

)

bitaw paging Fr. Chic kay murag naglibog na hinoon ko ... nabunyagan man gud akong bana og Islam before mi naminyo

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #6 on:** November 23, 2012, 10:42:23 PM »

i cannot believe that only catholics can receive grace. non-catholics may not have the grace of the sacraments as we know them, but by being good and true and virtuous they stand to deserve graces from a creator in whatever form of worship they take him to be.

Hi Isles,

Non-Catholics can receive graces prior to receiving the sacraments. These graces are called PREVENIENT GRACE.

Prevenient Grace is actually a form of Actual Grace, which manifests as either : 1) Prevenient Grace and 2) Subsequent Grace

Actual grace is the grace to do good. Persons who are in a state of grace, and persons who are not in a state of grace, even persons who are in a state of unrepentant actual mortal sin, are all recipients of actual graces.

To reiterate again,

There are two types of actual grace:

1. prevenient grace, also called operating grace - this is the grace given by God to enlighten our intellect and to enable our will so that we are able to freely choose to cooperate with subsequent grace, or to freely refuse to cooperate with subsequent grace.

There is no cooperation of the free will with prevenient grace; God is operating (acting alone) on the will, prior to any possibility of cooperation. All persons receive prevenient actual graces innumerable times in their lives, such that no one can say about any sin that he lacked the grace to freely choose not to sin, or not to repent from past sin.

2. subsequent grace, also called cooperating grace - this is the grace given by God to work with our free will to do good. God's grace is infallible and all-powerful, so how can his grace seem to fail in some persons, such that they do not choose to do good? It is because our all-powerful God humbly submits himself to our free will, so that our good acts will be truly free. Every good act in cooperation with grace is in essence an act of love of God and neighbor. But love is not truly love unless it is truly free. So God does not work His grace in such a manner that no one is permitted to sin in this life. Rather, he allows us the free choice

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06689x.htm

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #7 on:** November 23, 2012, 10:54:07 PM »

pero ang pangutana nako, kung nabunyagan ka og catholic unya nabunyagan ka og laing religion after that, kung ganahan ka mubalik og pagka-catholic, pabunyag ba ka og balik og catolico?

This is a very important situation , Anna. I will recommend that you contact your local parish priest for an answer to your query. I have also contacted Fr. Roel to answer your question. I will pray for you and your husband.

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jorgeanna · « **Reply #8 on:** November 23, 2012, 11:03:32 PM »

This is a very important situation , Anna. I will recommend that you contact your local parish priest for an answer to your query. I have also contacted Fr. Roel to answer your question. I will pray for you and your husband.

Bran, nagminyo mi og catholic 10 years ago without a Catholic baptism again sa part sa akong bana. with me, na-una man ang Islam baptism nako before ang catholic baptism but for my hubby, catholic first before Islam...

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #9 on:** November 23, 2012, 11:07:49 PM »

Bran, nagminyo mi og catholic 10 years ago without a Catholic baptism again sa part sa akong bana. with me, na-una man ang Islam baptism nako before ang catholic baptism but for my hubby, catholic first before Islam...

I am not in the position to answer that question, Anna. Kindly contact your local parish priest and tell him of your family's predicament and they shall have the answer to this. Please, do not be scared okay? Know that I am praying for you and your husband.

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islander · « **Reply #10 on:** November 23, 2012, 11:50:35 PM »

hi, lorenz. is fr chic still in tagbilaran?

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #11 on:** November 23, 2012, 11:52:41 PM »

hi, lorenz. is fr chic still in tagbilaran?

Naa na siya sa Louisiana, Isles. Busy pa to siya kai he has masses to serve pa man.

How are you, Isles? I have missed you.

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chicogon · « **Reply #12 on:** November 24, 2012, 12:05:35 AM »

i cannot believe that only catholics can receive grace. non-catholics may not have the grace of the sacraments as we know them, but by being good and true and virtuous they stand to deserve graces from a creator in whatever form of worship they take him to be.

AMEN!!!

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chicogon · « **Reply #13 on:** November 24, 2012, 12:08:48 AM »

hi, lorenz. is fr chic still in tagbilaran?

Wala na Ms Isles, dia nako sa New Orleans

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #14 on:** November 24, 2012, 12:17:06 AM »

Welcome back home, Father Roel.

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chicogon · « **Reply #15 on:** November 24, 2012, 12:20:50 AM »

pero ang pangutana nako, kung nabunyagan ka og catholic unya nabunyagan ka og laing religion after that, kung ganahan ka mubalik og pagka-catholic, pabunyag ba ka og balik og catolico?

I hope this will help. Here in the U.S. we have a program called R.C.I.A. (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) wherein a person of adult age interested in becoming a Catholic or even a non-Catholic wishing to join into full communion with the Roman Catholic Church... Or even a former Catholic who left the faith now wanting to resume being Catholic... usa ni ka tuig nga klase getting familiar with the Catholic faith. Then kung tan-aw sa director or pari nga ready na sila bunyagan, they will be initiated into the faith... going through diffrent steps of course.

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chicogon · « **Reply #16 on:** November 24, 2012, 12:24:51 AM »

During the course of the program, the candidates for baptism or full communion will be initiated into the CATECHUMENATE where they become CATECHUMENS or official candidate for baptism or full communion. At this stage, lain napong evangelization classes. Medyo advance stage na ni.

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chicogon · « **Reply #17 on:** November 24, 2012, 12:34:18 AM »

Then at around LENT dunay gitawag nga INQUIRY stages nga for 3 Sundays, during Mass, mo inquire ang pari sa Director sa RCIA and the godparents as to the readiness of the candidates. Then the priest with the whole parish will pray over the candidates. Then after homily, before the Profession of Faith, they are being sent off to further reflect the Word of God. Di pa sila pwede mo join sa Profession of Faith kay di paman sila Catholics and they are not yet ready for baptism or full communion. Sa Easter Vigil pa na sila mahimong full-fledged Catholics... as in full-fledged jud with baptism, confession, first communion and confirmation, all at the same night during the Easter Vigil.

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chicogon · « **Reply #18 on:** November 24, 2012, 12:35:50 AM »

Usually this RCIA lasts about 6-7 months, from September through Easter!

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chicogon · « **Reply #19 on:** November 24, 2012, 12:39:04 AM »

I hope it shed light to all your queries... sorry putol2 ako reply kay I'm using my smart phone, one hand ra tawon ko ga dokdok hehehe. Sorry for wrong spellings or grammatical errors. Muna2 na jud ning dokdoka hahaha

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islander · « **Reply #20 on:** November 24, 2012, 12:42:18 AM »

grabeh! now pa ko nga ing-ani diay ang requirements. di basta-basta. well worth the time and effort.

thanks, fr chic!

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islander · « **Reply #21 on:** November 24, 2012, 12:47:09 AM »

Wala na Ms Isles, dia nako sa New Orleans

oh, no. time is so fast. wa pa gani ko kaadto sa tagbilaran kay nahadlok sa bagyo. heavens, one month naman diay... ty na pod ang ako untang ipadala. uwaw na ko. bahala na lang, di bitaw mabahaw ang kandila...

anyways, welcome back to the house of the rising sun. good for you nga bisag asa ka paingon, be it tagbilaran or new orleans, you would still be GOING HOME. hinaot imong bawon kinilaw lang, way sinugbang baboy.

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islander · « **Reply #22 on:** November 24, 2012, 12:54:52 AM »

Naa na siya sa Louisiana, Isles. Busy pa to siya kai he has masses to serve pa man.

How are you, Isles? I have missed you.

just fine after two weeks of bad colds and shingles and trying hard to "fight" certain bureaucratic red tapes with well-entrenched heartless corruption, in the process feeling like samson with a newly shaven head.

thanks. hope all's okay with you, hospital rounds, weather, petraeus and all.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #23 on:** November 24, 2012, 01:27:44 AM »

just fine after two weeks of bad colds and shingles and trying hard to "fight" certain bureaucratic red tapes with well-entrenched heartless corruption, in the process feeling like samson with a newly shaven head.

thanks. hope all's okay with you, hospital rounds, weather, petraeus and all.

I'm sorry that you had endured so much stress as of late, Isles, know that I will pray for your recovery. Isles, do you take enough multivitamins? There is a multivitamin brand here called 'CENTRUM', they also have some for women, which includes extra ascrobic acid (vitamin c) and also ample amounts of estrogen. Try those if you don't already have it or are not taking enough multi-vitamins.

Shingles is the reactivation of a virus called Herpes Zoster, which is the same virus that causes chicken pox. It is stress induced, my dear Isles. Rest pod ha, Isles. You need to limit the stressors in your life.

Okay lang pod ko diri, Isles. Thanks to God, buhi pa ta lagi. Every day is a blessing.

Love,
Bran.

PS. I'm getting ready na for Christmas, Isles. I'm planning to go home on December 20, pohon Maluuy ang Ginoo.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #24 on:** November 24, 2012, 01:31:32 AM »

I hope this will help. Here in the U.S. we have a program called R.C.I.A. (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) wherein a person of adult age interested in becoming a Catholic or even a non-Catholic wishing to join into full communion with the Roman Catholic Church... Or even a former Catholic who left the faith now wanting to resume being Catholic... usa ni ka tuig nga klase getting familiar with the Catholic faith. Then kung tan-aw sa director or pari nga ready na sila bunyagan, they will be initiated into the faith... going through diffrent steps of course.

During the course of the program, the candidates for baptism or full communion will be initiated into the CATECHUMENATE where they become CATECHUMENS or official candidate for baptism or full communion. At this stage, lain napong evangelization classes. Medyo advance stage na ni.

Then at around LENT dunay gitawag nga INQUIRY stages nga for 3 Sundays, during Mass, mo inquire ang pari sa Director sa RCIA and the godparents as to the readiness of the candidates. Then the priest with the whole parish will pray over the candidates. Then after homily, before the Profession of Faith, they are being sent off to further reflect the Word of God. Di pa sila pwede mo join sa Profession of Faith kay di paman sila Catholics and they are not yet ready for baptism or full communion. Sa Easter Vigil pa na sila mahimong full-fledged Catholics... as in full-fledged jud with baptism, confession, first communion and confirmation, all at the same night during the Easter Vigil.

I hope it shed light to all your queries... sorry putol2 ako reply kay I'm using my smart phone, one hand ra tawon ko ga dokdok hehehe. Sorry for wrong spellings or grammatical errors. Muna2 na jud ning dokdoka hahaha

Father Roel,

Thank You so much for answering the questions in this board.

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chicogon · « **Reply #25 on:** November 24, 2012, 02:14:43 AM »

Father Roel,

Thank You so much for answering the questions in this board.

Welcome!

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chicogon · « **Reply #26 on:** November 24, 2012, 02:19:28 AM »

grabeh! now pa ko nga ing-ani diay ang requirements. di basta-basta. well worth the time and effort.

thanks, fr chic!

Welcome. Sa tinuod sayon raman. Taas2 lang ug klase, pero 1 hour a week raman pod. Dili man kada adlaw. A total maybe of 30 plus hours

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islander · « **Reply #27 on:** November 24, 2012, 03:24:42 AM »

aherm. i have a confession...

si banana republic didn't grow up a catholic. but he was willing to convert. he was baptized right before our wedding ceremony. short cut, sa pinurol nga pagkasulti. he received three sacraments in less than an hour-- baptism, matrimony, eucharist.

i believe the priest (a close family friend who happens to be one of the three canon lawyers of the cebu archdiocese at the time) took the short cut because his priority was for us to have a catholic wedding. catechism came later, slowly, from me. but he's the bible expert. we have no religious issues.

i hope that even if the process of conversion seemed somewhat inverted (convert now, study later), it did not in any way negate his being catholic?

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chicogon · « **Reply #28 on:** November 24, 2012, 06:57:42 AM »

aherm. i have a confession...

si banana republic didn't grow up a catholic. but he was willing to convert. he was baptized right before our wedding ceremony. short cut, sa pinurol nga pagkasulti. he received three sacraments in less than an hour-- baptism, matrimony, eucharist.

i believe the priest (a close family friend who happens to be one of the three canon lawyers of the cebu archdiocese at the time) took the short cut because his priority was for us to have a catholic wedding. catechism came later, slowly, from me. but he's the bible expert. we have no religious issues.

i hope that even if the process of conversion seemed somewhat inverted (convert now, study later), it did not in any way negate his being catholic?

Not at all. Once baptized you're baptized. Even with catechism classes before initiation one cannot claim he/she has expertise on faith and therefore makes him good enough candidate for the sacraments. Gi bunyagan ni sila becsuse the Church believed it was God's will that they receive God's loving grace... not because they deserved it. After all, ang Ginoo man ang nag initiate ani tanan, igo man lang ta ni respond.

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chicogon · « **Reply #29 on:** November 24, 2012, 06:59:41 AM »

We have a lifetime ahead of us to learn more about the faith...

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #30 on:** November 24, 2012, 09:26:56 AM »

We have a lifetime ahead of us to learn more about the faith...

Amen!

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